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  1. Galleries
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  4. » Nebula range swans!

 
Nebula range swans!...

astronomia A

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Nebula range swans! sent on September 20, 2012 (8:05) by Skender Buci. 21 comments, 2269 views. [retina]




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user15434
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sent on September 20, 2012 (11:19) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

black sky, nebulae visible, colored stars, corrected optical ... what about ... GOOD JOB!

avatarsenior
sent on September 20, 2012 (13:13) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

black sky, nebulae visible, colored stars, corrected optical ... what about ... GOOD JOB!

Quoto!

avatarsenior
sent on September 20, 2012 (15:05) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

One question: you balanced the RGB channels to compensate for the reduction in the brightness of the channel B (but also a bit 'G) that produces the Earth's atmosphere?

user15434
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sent on September 20, 2012 (15:36) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

I do not ... : Fconfuso:

avatarsenior
sent on September 20, 2012 (16:27) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

I'm not really into the topic, so I could not quantify the diffusion of various frequencies, but the phenomenon certainly exists. Surely somewhere there should be some numbers, I believe that in these cases it takes a few stars from the "color" known as a reference against which ricundurre the entire image.
I say this because almost all the photos I see are on the reddish, I do not know if because of the removal of the filter that cuts through the infrared filter pollution or anything, but I think this is abnormal dominant.

avatarsenior
sent on September 20, 2012 (17:34) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

Thank you all, sorry I have to put the data! Sigma lens 70 200 f2.8 iso 1000 nikon d7000 on frame meade lxd55 changed with the tripod of lxd200 meade!

avatarsenior
sent on September 20, 2012 (21:45) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

Very nice, a beautiful red!

To answer Wolf: having replaced the filter I do bilanciamneto the color manually, personally I take the parameters to include in the program I use to calibrate the astronomical photos from a shot made at a blank sheet of paper exposed to the sun, is a system that works very fine. The dominant red reflex using the change is most evident when you take photos during the day using the auto white balance, for astronomical photos the effect is desired, the filter just for astronomy passes better the frequencies at which the nebulae emit red who are the majority. With the normal filter, as well as collecting much less signal, nebulae tend to magenta than to red. The reduction of signal in channel B I is due (and here correct me those who know more) to the fact that for each pixel in the matrix dof the Bayer color sensors, one is for B, one for R and two for G.

Greetings

Clear

user15434
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sent on September 20, 2012 (22:38) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

Hello Wolf3D,
when shooting a photo astronomical actually have a reduction of the blue (green) spectrum due to absorption air pollution. This can be quantified for example by the subtraction between the solar spectrum at the limit of the atmosphere and at sea level (~ lasp.colorado.edu/ bagenal/3720/CLASS5/EarthVisAbsorption.jpg). The coefficients that you need should not be nothing more than the area of ??the spectrum difference in the range of frequencies of the filters R, G and B. Having said that then there is the CMOS sensor that also has a response as a function of frequency (for example the Canon EOS 40D www.astrosurf.com/buil/50d/canon_40d_40dm.png - solid line) and in particular is very sensitive to blue / green. Finally we have the microlenses R, G and B, the IR-cut filter, electronics, and finally the response of the human eye [orn addition to the PC monitor] . Everything works fine if, like mom makes Canon, CMOS + filters + e + ... generating a color similar to the "natural" human eye. In this sense, if you take a picture with a Canon EOS unmodified to this nebula is actually correct as seen from the ground and then according to your observation should be balanced to atmospheric absorption. Amateur astronomers, however, replace the original IR-cut filter, modifying the response of the DSLR visible light (dashed line in www.astrosurf.com/buil/50d/canon_40d_40dm.png). This allows you to collect more light "red" and in particular typical of nebulae (H-alpha). At this point, the image obtained is NOT what most would see it from the surface and then it would make sense to correct for the atmosphere. The question I & egravand; however the following ... what's the correct astronomical images to see them as if we were in space? In any case would not be the colors "true" of the nebula, given that there is always half of the response of the human eye. I think more correct instead highlight the red component of the image as being the dominant element of the hydrogen many nebulae, is perhaps the most "important" of the nebula itself. Reduce the red component would be to "turn off" the nebulae and change its color would change the chemical composition:-D
this is how I understand it ...
hello and see you soon,
David

avatarsenior
sent on September 20, 2012 (23:19) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

The method of the paper (although should see if the paper is really neutral, see, eg, recycled paper, it would be a better photo gray) is a simple but effective I think.
I think the correction is applied is that of balancing the colors of the sheet to match as would be seen by the human eye out of the atmosphere, and this is already a partial response to what he says Astrotrezzi
that sense is correct astronomical images to see them as if we were in space? In any case, would be the colors "true" nebula, because of the way there is always the response of the human eye
.
Tralaltro color is not a physical quantity, the COLOR exists only in our minds.
I would correct to ensure that the image is neutral, ie does not depend onthe fact that it was taken on our planet rather than in space (see Hubble etc ...) or on another planet.
But making this correction would not be a true picture of what the eye / mind of man can perceive (I mean the long exposure that we can not do).
I think the correction is required in order to use the photographs for scientific purposes, to evaluate the chemical composition of a planet or a nebula, and this can not be influenced by our atmosphere!
Or do you think the "red shift", to be precise, this technique should not be affected by the atmosphere.
About changing the filter, I had assumed all principle, but the infrared (as discussed above) is NOT a color, and the fact that the Reds in a cameraas amended, will be more bright is because the frequency dell'ifrarosso are closer to red instead of blue in fact, the sensitivity curve of a modified reflex varies especially on red.

user15434
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sent on September 21, 2012 (1:17) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

I agree with pretty much everything even though I have some doubts about the concept of white balance. As far as I know, the camera should calibrate itself so that any dominant source considered "white" are corrected. This does not mean (I think) correct the spectral response of the chamber to the atmosphere. What I mean is that if the atmosphere absorbs some of the blue, the image of a yellowish white star would appear, however, even after balancing with cardboard. We should do the white balance on a white star, but this is what is already being done in astrophotography. But here comes into play the filter of the camera that makes it look nebulae redder than the human eye (center in green) would see. This sballerebbe games yet.
I'd like to find a solution ... maybe we can sentircvia the MP ;-)!
You said that you can find the chemical composition of an object from the image RGB ... I would be interested in learning more since I like to play with narrow-band filters and diffraction gratings. Could you kindly advise me where to find some source infos?
Hello and if anyone has any ideas in the face! Wolf3d now infected me :-). This story of the colors I like it very much ... :-D

avatarsenior
sent on September 21, 2012 (1:41) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

3Cbr /> In particular, the "Neutral" (since you also have canon) fits the histogram so that the image appears as if passing through the sensitivity curves of the eye.
Try to take a picture of your screen with a white background, you'll see that if you use the camera profile faithful the green channel will be slightly darker, this is because the monitor provide a light that appears white to the eye, since the peak frequencies of the green but the camera with that profile will notice the difference. If you apply the profile neutral "defect" is corrected.

user15434
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sent on September 21, 2012 (8:31) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

... images in Ha-OIII-SII is one thing, the RGB image is another. The colors are completely unpacked using Hubble to better show the composition of the nebulae for example by putting the image has as channel G (while of course should be in R).
The profiles of the camera but I think not work properly with the room changed, since the response of the eye loses all meaning. What interested me is, as overs, the possibility to study the chemical composition of the objects using a standard RGB image (without narrow-band filters) as well as the possibility to calibrate the response of the chamber as a function of frequency.
With regard to the quantum atom unfortunately I know ... :-( I'm a nuclear astrophysicist ;-).
See you soon,
David


user15434
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sent on September 21, 2012 (8:58) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

... from what am in network seems that the only way to study the chemical composition of the objects (as I thought) is the use of narrow band filters or tools for spectroscopy (prism, grating, ...) :-(. A I found this about the Hubble Space Telescope on the site: "The colors in Hubble images, Which are assigned for various Reasons, aren't always what we'd see if we were atto visit the imaged objects in a spacecraft. Often We use color as a tool, Whether it is to enhance an object's detail or to visualize what ordinarily could never be seen by the human eye.. "So even the Hubble images, but their calibration, as do most of the astrophotographer seeks to express to the structures of the nebulae wow. If you have news or find something useful in network communicates via PM as well ;-)!
Hello,
David

avatarsenior
sent on September 21, 2012 (11:54) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

Because the H-alpha filter is a narrow band already? This and other (OIII SII) can be applied on reflex that bayer matrix of CCD.
Once acquired the data, it is not necessary to give due weight to each of the channels? I do not think it is done by eye.
Again, I'm not an expert, I have never competed in the company (except with a few dozen short sprints mediated) and I do not know how to analyze the chemical composition of a nebula from an RGB image, because I have not never said that! :)

avatarsenior
sent on September 21, 2012 (12:20) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

I think this is the technique used by Chiara: www.astrofototecnica.it/Tecniche/coloredslr.html
According to me to be professional:-P should capture separately shots in the visible and those in various bands, including infrared, and use the latter only to reduce the luminance noise (such as the result of superimposing visible in "Brightness" with an opacity value can be chosen according to the tastes or situation).
Dell'atmofera influence in the photos I happen to treat when shooting panoramas with people at different depths, then often work such as the furthest mountains in a different way from those closest, or at least if I were to take a person away tens of km would tend always to compensate the influence of the atmosphere on the photo, then cyandiffuse to subtract and then balance the channels.

avatarsenior
sent on September 21, 2012 (15:00) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

the technique used by Chiara: www.astrofototecnica.it / Techniques / coloredslr.html


exactly this! It 's true, there are cards with different shades of white, but as long as you do shots with the sun directly, more or less parameters obtained are similar. I used three different cards, one of which is glossy, with no apparent color casts and it works. We take into account in any case, less than that small portions of other regions of the spectrum, the sensors of the reflex respond well in the visible and in particular in the area of ??emission of the solar spectrum (filtered from the atmosphere, clearly), which is the light in the magnificent sensor that is our eye works and is therefore the range in which the cameras are optimized. Balance with a clean sheet means tell the program that processes the image7 invading the space, even if with arguments interesting. I think it's the only way to give meaning to the colors provided by a chemical sensor with RGB matrix (NB: I'm a chemist!)

hello

Clear


avatarsenior
sent on September 21, 2012 (15:27) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

If it were possible for us to take a picture of the earth from space, there would seem logical to see in the region of South America a large portion of green to represent the Amazon rainforest? You would not expect to see the deserts of red colored?
According to me instead of the raw image taken with a camera (not modified to simplify the situation) would not be the one expected, and we would be with the need to balance in some way colors.
Do you see now what I mean?
You could open a post about it might be interesting.
Hello

avatarsenior
sent on September 21, 2012 (15:29) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

However, a blank sheet of paper illuminated by daylight of the sun appears white because of the adaptation of the brain to dominant colors, if you put next to a computer with a blank screen you will see that the paper is actually yellow.

avatarsenior
sent on September 21, 2012 (15:58) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

I'm reading this interesting article: www.astrosurf.com/buil/us/cmy/cmy.htm
The gist of the question that I wanted to bring to your attention was this: When using RGB or CMY filters filters, attention Should be paid to restore the chromatic balance of the observed object.
Hello

Paul

avatarsenior
sent on September 21, 2012 (22:11) | This comment has been automatically translated (show/hide original)

I understand what you mean Wolf, the fact is that we are immersed in the Earth's atmosphere and the colors we see depend heavily on it, both terrestrial and extraterrestrial. Of course, the sheet is not white (ie RGB = 255,255,255), the color that a white object when it is illuminated by the sun, whose light is taken as a reference to set the white balance, in fact. Everything comes from the fact that our eyes (and our brains) are calibrated to the light, so that way we calibrated images appear more pleasing. Giacchè must choose a reference light, why not choose the most beautiful and natural? From here on the calibration sunlight.

a greeting

Clear


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